Fellow men like Francois Tremblay, who repeatedly use violent and/or paternalistic language in response to women disagreeing with them, bring up a question I want to discuss: what level of tolerance should there be for expressions of hatred from self-styled “male allies” against women who they believe are falsely claiming to be feminists (or are “pro-BDSM, pro-porn or pro-prostitution,” or the like)? Zero tolerance, full tolerance, or somewhere in between? It seems Tremblay grapples with with edges of this question in his one of his recent posts.
What argument is there for anything but zero tolerance? If you, a totally radical-feminist-allied dude who, can “talk back” to (as in, slur, hate on, violently address) women who are not radical enough for your sensibilities, what stops a self-identified “sex-positive feminist” man (I talked to one of those today, it was awful) from watching you and thinking “if it’s men’s place to insult and swear at women who are doing feminism wrong, that means I can harass the SWERFs and TERFs at will!”?
And what if you’re wrong? Imagine for a moment that you are not the Obelisk of Objectivity and that the basic principle of skepticism does in fact imply the possibility that the feminists you agree with (in Tremblay’s case, self-identified radical feminists) could be wrong about whatever it is you believe the other women are wrong about. Then, I want to ask, what are you doing? You are using violent attacks to support a campaign for the relief of human suffering that does not even concern your own suffering, much less would actually address the suffering of the people in question.
But let’s make believe the above concerns are moot. What level of tolerance should we allow? 100%? Can I just go ham on any woman I see who I myself determine, let’s say, to quote Tremblay, “promotes genderism, the Patriarchy or the oppression of women”, calling them self-hating women and that their violent ideology makes them utter fucking idiots who should get therapy for having the sufficient mental imbalance to call themselves feminists? Obviously I can’t just treat a woman who I disagree with as if they were just like men who e.g. think rape should be legal. So where do you draw the line, and why? What say you, radical-“allied” men?
We shouldn’t even need to employ hypotheticals for this case. If you really believe that there are women, in this male supremacist world, who are promoting ideas of male supremacy, what rational implication is there besides thinking of these women as victims of that male supremacy who you, as a man, should leave alone? Why not let women talk to, convince, educate, and even fight other women? Why do we need another man going off on women? If you’re a man, why not show respect to all women?
Further, why not focus on men? If you have energy to tweet and comment about how those “fuck[ing] liberal” women should “die in a fire”, you have energy to confront Charlie Glickman, Charles Clymer and all the other “feminist” men who promote the ideology you enjoy deriding women for buying into. You have finite time and resources in your life, and if you actually care about women, rather than your own ego and feel-good masculine posturing and "reputation", what is your excuse?
There you have it folks, “sex” is as necessary to life as breathing and excreting. If you don’t have sex, you will die.
Robert Jensen - The Color of the Race Problem Is White
Let me answer the question the other way before tackling it directly. Major nonviolent Palestinian political leaders, like Mr. Barghouti, are sitting in an Israeli prison. Why does Israel maintain inside its jails people who are committed to the nonviolent path? If Israel arrests every single nonviolent leader with a great deal of credibility and holds them in prison, how can they produce an alternative paradigm for Palestinian resistance?
Now, why does Hamas fire rockets? Since the 1960s, the United Nations has permitted people who are occupied to resist. It is their obligation to resist. Hamas is part of Gaza. Gaza has been suffocated for at least 20 years, if not longer. It is under a terrible embargo. If you put a pillow on the face of a human being, that human being cannot be expected to close their mouth and willingly be suffocated. They will struggle. And that is why they fight back."
Professor of international studies at Trinity College Vijay Prashad, responding to the question “But why the rockets? Why not engage in massive nonviolent civil disobedience?”
"It’s amazing how Mr. Netanyahu, he utilizes ignorance to get his way in propaganda, by saying Hamas is basically the Islamic State. It has got nothing to do with the Islamic State. Hamas has become—over the course of the last 15, 16 years, it has become a organization of Palestine. It is not even any longer an organization of the Muslim Brotherhood. It has inhabited, in a sense, part of the Palestinian project. It’s not an external force, as it had been."
"We know the word “Benghazi” only because of a very important event in the career of Hillary Clinton. And I think that tells you a great deal about the nature of American foreign policy making, that it’s so insular."
Tremblay thinks women who disagree with him should "die in a fire"
in a world where the act of not-being-attracted-to-someone is bigotry and violence, everyone can be guilted into giving men PIV
in a world where the act of females-not-being-attracted-to-males is bigotry and violence, women can be guilted into giving men piv*
Please don’t remove misogyny from this equation, it is not “everyone” that is being guilted into piv with men, it is women and esp lesbians that are being guilted into piv, and I assure you that it is biologically impossible for males to have piv with males.
honest mistake, sorry, I did mean to refer to just women; tbh I wouldn’t make that kind of post again in the first place…
What do men contribute when they insult women for being "liberal handmaidens"? What is accomplished, besides an attempt to hurt women? Besides giving an impression that the women you are obviously trying to impress and emulate are hateful and uncaring? Maybe it makes these men feel better.
Here’s Francois Tremblay, cursing out and insulting women for not agreeing with him.
i don’t really know who he is but he didn’t really insult her
sorry for not being clear: by “women” I meant groups of women in general (“Fuck [women] who think [X]”); and, “You are genius” seemed like a sarcastic way of saying “you are stupid”